Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s statement and answers to media questions following the 21th Doha Forum, 10 December 2023

Ladies and gentlemen,

Thank you for the invitation. Indeed, I planned to be with you today, but life is full of circumstances. Thank you very much for understanding this.

I did not have the privilege of listening of the previous discussions. But I assume that you were discussing the multipolar world which is emerging after five hundred years of domination of what we call the “collective West”. It’s domination was based on a diverse history including ruthless exploitation of peoples and territories of other countries. In any case, on the basis of this five hundred years, the United States and its allies built the model of globalization, which they believed would serve them well to continue to be number one in economy, in military exercises, in culture, politics, and so on and so forth. And they thought that they would be using this globalization scheme to continue their domination.

However, other countries, using exactly the principles and instruments of the western globalization, managed to beat the West on its own turf, building the economies on the basis of national sovereignty, on the basis of balance of interests with other countries. And as this process continued, the new centers of economic growth, of financial power, and of political influence started to emerge.

We see this process very much underway, which is clearly changing the balance of power in the world, and not to the West liking. And in order to suppress this kind of development, any dissent, our western colleagues decided to sacrifice all the principles of globalization, which they have been selling to everybody for decades and decades, including free market, fair competition, inviolability of property, presumption of innocence. All this was sacrificed for the sake of rules-based world order. The rules were never published, were never even announced by anyone to anyone, and they are being applied depending on what exactly the West needs at a particular moment of modern history.

This is especially seen in various conflicts which the West ignites all over the world. Everything goes to keep the hegemony. Intervention in domestic affairs, sanctions against all the principles of competition, regime change, and of course direct military interventions, like we have seen in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria, and elsewhere.

The analysis of all these events raises a question: is there a single place where the United States intervened with military force, where life has become better? I think you know the answer. Ruined statehood, human tragedies, and bleak prospects for the future of the countries where the Americans and NATO interfered.

Ukraine of course is another example. By the way even allies of the United States are not spared when the Americans want to do something to keep the hegemonic position. They made sure that European Union bears the brunt of the adventure against Ukraine economically, especially from the point of view of cheap energy. Former cheap Russian energy is being replaced by expensive American liquefied natural gas, and examples of deindustrialization of Germany and other European countries are plentiful. I would not dwell upon them.

My point is that we have to recognize the objective course of history, which is the evolution of a multipolar world. We have to accept the existence of new organizations, new formats, new structures like BRICS, Shanghai Cooperation Organization, ASEAN, African Union, and many subregional organizations in Africa, CELAC and subregional groups in Latin America. They are going to be the bricks of the new polycentric world. This must be recognized as an objective course of history and this must be respected. This is something which we actually miss when we analyse the modern West diplomacy. This is for the Western to draw conclusions.

Question: May I start by asking you about the war on Gaza? We now have more than 17,000 people killed in two months in Gaza. The efforts to get a ceasefire have not got anywhere because the U.S. used its veto in the Security Council. Do you see any hope of diplomacy to bring the conflict to an end in the near future?

Sergey Lavrov: There is always a hope for diplomacy, and this is what we have been trying to do since the beginning of the current wave of violence.

We strongly condemned the terrorist attack against Israel on the 7th of October, like we condemn any terrorist attack. At the same time, we do not believe it's acceptable to use this event for collective punishment of the millions of Palestinian people with indiscriminate shelling of the civilian quarters.

You mentioned the number of casualties there growing day after day, and those who suffer most are the kids and women. And the effects about what is going on, we can see on your and other channels every passing hour.

Very soon after this tragedy started, we have introduced a resolution in the Security Council. It was blocked by the United States. Brazil introduced another resolution. It was also blocked by the United States. Then the General Assembly passed a resolution which was weaker than what we wanted in the Security Council because it provided not for humanitarian ceasefire, but rather for humanitarian truce. But even that was not acceptable to the Americans and other Western countries. They did not support that resolution.

Eventually they organized the Security Council to pass a resolution which called, not demanded, but called for humanitarian pauses. This resolution is better than nothing. But even with this week appeal, we cannot see it materialized because to do this, we need some kind of monitoring on the ground. Maybe United Nations Relief and Works Agency in Palestine could serve the role. But we addressed the Secretary General, suggesting that he used his authority to consider some kind of monitoring, but so far to no avail. But this does not mean that we all should stop trying. We should do everything in our power to continue this political pressure to achieve the humanitarian ceasefire.

Question: That US veto in the Security Council, how do you think it will affect the way the US is seen in the region?

Let me read you a tweet from the Foreign Minister of Oman, Sayyid Badr Albusaidi, which he wrote after the veto: "I deeply regret the United States should sacrifice the lives of innocent civilians for the cause of Zionism. Long after we're gone, the world will look back on today with shame."

Sergey Lavrov: It's up to the regional countries and other countries in the world to judge for themselves as regards the American veto.

For us, we have made our conclusion long ago. The egoistic nature of the decisions the American foreign policy provides are very well known to us. You mentioned this veto. When vetoing this resolution, the American representative in the Security Council room said that they cannot support the demand for immediate ceasefire in Gaza, because this will sow the seeds for the next war.

The Americans are very good at what we call "cancel culture". Whenever they don't like some part of history or some part of events, they just cancel what preceded it. So by saying that, by announcing this ceasefire, we will sow the seeds for the next war.

We have to recall what was the roots of the situation in the Palestinian territories. 75 years of resolution, promising the state to the Palestinians as being sabotaged, and for about 50 years the blockade of Gaza continues.

I don't remember who it was, but one of the official of the Israeli government, he said that those are not actually civilians because the Palestinians in Gaza, when they are three years old, they are already extremists. But we have to understand the reason why the kids and youth in Palestine are being brought the feeling that they have been victimized for decades and for generations.

We have been telling our Israeli colleagues many years ago, as well as I myself, when we had close contacts with the predecessors of FM Eli Cohen, several times I was drawing the attention that the single most dangerous factor igniting extremism in the Middle East is the unresolved nature of the Palestinian statehood.

Question: There will be people watching here in the audience and watching on television who will be saying yes, he is absolutely right about the high level of civilian casualties, but they will say that also about what Russia has done in the past. I will come on to the Ukraine war later in our interview, but if you go back to Chechnya, the high level of civilian casualties, you go to Syria, the bombardment of hospitals, aren't you being hypocritical here?

Sergey Lavrov: Well it is up to you to judge. I don't believe I am hypocritical or Russia is hypocritical. We never have been hiding the operations which we conducted in the Republic of Chechnya. We never have been hiding what we have been doing in Syria at the request of the legitimate government, member of the United Nations, fighting ISIS, Jabhat al-Nusra, Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, and other organizations which have popped up after the American interventions in Iraq when Al-Qaeda was created, then in Libya, Jabhat al-Nusra, and you know this story. And we will continue to fight terrorism. Exactly with the rules...

Question: In 2015 I asked you at the news conference at the United Nations about this, about those groups, and you said if it looks like a terrorist, if it acts like a terrorist, if it walks like a terrorist, if it fights like a terrorist, it's terrorist.

Well, what is Russia's view of Hamas? Because Israel, Western countries, the European Union, they say they're a terrorist organization. I note that at a Hamas delegation visited Moscow in October. Do you think Hamas should be part of the post-conflict resolution here?

Sergey Lavrov: You're much better at interrupting people than I am.

Indeed, Hamas committed terrorist attack on the 7th of October, which we condemned immediately. Hamas has a political branch which operates in Doha, and we have relations with this political branch. We immediately got in touch with the people in Doha to negotiate the fate of the people taken hostages, Russian citizens (but not only Russian citizens), Israeli citizens, and citizens of the neighboring countries to Russia, and some others.

We managed to reach a deal which, as far as I can say, Israelis understand and even appreciate it as far as their citizens are concerned.

Question: The Secretary General of the United Nations, there were calls from the Israelis for him to resign after he said October the 7th didn't happen in a vacuum. He was right, wasn't he? The U.S. tried to take the lead role in diplomacy and in fact has taken the lead role in diplomacy on this matter for decades now, but they've been ignoring the Palestinians.

Sergey Lavrov: I think everybody can understand and can agree that this happened not in a vacuum.

I referred to the decades of blockade, decades of unfulfilled promise that the Palestinians would have a state, living side to side with Israel in security and good neighborliness. Again, it's about the "cancel culture". Whatever you don't like in the events which led to a situation, you cancel.

It's like you mentioned Ukraine. It's like everything which took place before February 2022, including the bloody coup, unconstitutional change of power, including the war against Donbass, which did not accept the coup, the illegal change of power and did not accept the power of putschists. All this was canceled.

The only thing which remained – "Russia invaded Ukraine". But the Minsk agreements which were openly sabotaged by the Germans, the French and the Ukrainian president at that time, all this has been canceled. The hybrid war against Russia launched by United States and NATO is based on this "cancel culture".

Question: Talking about the war in Ukraine. Recently the Ukrainian side, the head of their armed forces said there was a stalemate. He got into some trouble with President Zelensky for saying that. Would you agree with that assessment on the battlefield right now there's a stalemate?

Sergey Lavrov: It's up to the Ukrainians to recognize how deep they are in the hole where the Americans put them.

Question: If it's a stalemate, aren't you in that hole too?

Sergey Lavrov: It's up for the military to assess the situations in which they find themselves.

Question: But as Russia's chief diplomat if you look at this war, I don't know how many people have been killed on either side. There are so many different estimates. But all of them seem to be very large figures with tens of thousands on either side. And this was a war of choice by Russia. I know you call it a special military operation, but President Putin decided to invade. What has Russia achieved in the last 22 months?

Sergey Lavrov: I know that whatever I say in my previous intervention, you would still be reading from your paper, which you printed before the beginning of this session.

I mentioned the phenomenon of "cancel culture". It's not a war of choice. It's the operation which we could not avoid given the years of Ukraine being prepared by the United States and NATO as an instrument to undermine Russia's security.

If you have interest, I will send you the list of the legislation that  the Ukrainian government passed after the bloody putsch in 2014 to cancel everything Russian – language, media, culture, education. Everything. And this is against the people who for generations have been living in the eastern and southern Ukraine. This has been all canceled. Western media are being encouraged to say that "Russia invaded Ukraine", Russia started the war of choice.

What was the other choice if your nation, if your people are physically exterminated and this is cemented in legislation of the country where nazist regime holding power?

Question: I spoke recently to the President of Brazil Lula da Silva, and he said there should be a ceasefire right now and negotiations. What do you think are the chances, the real chances of any diplomacy?

Sergey Lavrov: You have to call Mr. Zelensky because a year and a half ago he signed a decree prohibiting any negotiations with President Putin's government. And this is a well-known fact. The President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin repeatedly mentioned this when asked similar questions.

They had a chance in March and April 2022. Very soon after the beginning of the military operation when in Istanbul the negotiators reached a deal based on the neutrality of Ukraine. No NATO, but some other security guarantees given to Ukraine by the West and Russia together. This deal was aborted. It was canceled because the Americans and the Brits decided that if President Vladimir Putin is ready to sign it then let's exhaust him more. That's what they're doing now. Stalemate or no stalemate, that's the fact.

Question: When you look back to the beginning of the war there was a General Assembly resolution that Russia should pull back its troops from Ukraine. At the time there are 141 states in favor of the motion. As things stand now do you think the global position has changed, the perception of Russia has changed?

Sergey Lavrov: I know how was adopted that resolution. I have many friends in New York. They were privately telling me that the means used by the Americans to get that many votes were really specific. The ambassadors in New York were approached by junior diplomats from an American or British mission and the question was raised: "Mr. Ambassador, please don't forget that the vote is tomorrow and don't forget that your bank account is in Merrill Lynch, that your kids are in Stanford". I'm not exacerbating. It was exactly the means applied.

If the Americans are champions of democracy as they say look what happened in February 2022. We repeatedly, for many years have been saying that Ukraine in NATO is unacceptable. In December 2021 we suggested to US and NATO a treaty guaranteeing security in Europe for everyone. This was rejected.

The Minsk Agreements have been undermined and the people cynically said that they never intended to implement them. They needed to gain more time to put more arms into Ukraine against Russia.

We started this operation. President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin made a special address. He explained everything what was behind our action. The Americans and the satellites condemned it strongly. Okay.

The others, the Global South, the Global Majority, they should be treated as grown-ups and they should have decided on their own having listened to us, having listened to the West. This would be a democratic way of treating countries of the world. We never ever pushed anybody into any position. We just presented the reasons why we did it.

The Americans and the Europeans, NATO, EU members were running all over the world. Not just presenting the assessment of what is happening in Ukraine, but putting ultimatum, blackmailing, threats, sanctions. Unless you condemn Russia, there would be consequences. You know how they behave. This is their usual style.

Question: You mentioned the expansion of NATO, but the result of your war is that there are far more NATO troops now on Russia's borders. Sweden wants to join NATO. Finland's already joined NATO. You now have a doubling of the border between NATO and Russia, so it's backfired, isn't it?

Sergey Lavrov: You know, in the beginning of the 19th century, Napoleon assembled almost entire Europe to attack Russia and we defeated him and we became stronger after that aggression.

In the middle of last century, Adolph Hitler did the same. He put under his command most of the European countries to launch aggression against Russia. He was defeated as well and we became stronger after that war.

And the result of the war launched by the United States using Ukraine against Russia is already seen. You mentioned the expansion of NATO, but the main result for us and for others, by the way, who would fill it later, is that Russia has already become much stronger, that it was before these events. And this would be the case after the war has finished.

Question: Let me go back to August when Yevgeny Prigozhin was killed, when his plane was blown up. That is still very suspicious. No one knows exactly what happened, although people have suspicions. He ran the Wagner Group that had tentacles in Africa, in Libya, Mali, Central African Republic.

Can you tell our audience what now happens to those Wagner operations? Have they been subsumed into the Russian chain of command? Because there are all sorts of human rights allegations, torture, executions that were made against those Wagner fighters.

Sergey Lavrov: The death of Yevgeny Prigozhin has been investigated by the Russian investigation committee. The results have been made public. So on this one I don't have anything to add.

As regards the soldiers from the Wagner Group. There were many reports by the Russian government, by the Belarusian president by the way, how the fate and the future for these people has been discussed. A number of them went to Belarus and started to serve there, to undergo military service there. Others joined the regular structures of the Russian army and they continue to serve.

Question: There are important elections taking place in Russia and the US  next year. I think we know who is probably going to win in Russia.

In the United States, and it's 11 months long time in politics, Donald Trump may well be the Republican candidate. He's looking like he may well be the Republican candidate.

For Russia, would that improve relations with the US if Donald Trump was back in the White House?

Sergey Lavrov: You know we respect the American people and we would not make any remarks which would look as if we don't.

I remember the reaction of the Democratic party after Donald Trump won in 2016. And by the way, we still remember how President Barack Obama, three weeks before Donald Trump's inauguration, expelled dozens of Russian diplomats with their families. Making sure that the departure was as uncomfortable as possible. And then introduced sanctions against Russia for "interference in the American domestic affairs".

Since then, they never could provide a single proof that this lie has any substance behind it. So I leave the American electoral system and habits to them. I wouldn't like to get into this.

Question: You are, I believe, the second longest serving foreign minister in the world. You're the longest serving foreign minister of Russia since Tsarist times. And of course you were at the diplomatic top table before this for 10 years as the Russian ambassador to the United Nations. In a few months in March, you'll have served for 20 years as Russian foreign minister. How long do you think you're going to go on in this job?

Sergey Lavrov: I really don't understand why I'm asked this question. I serve my country as long as my country needs me.