Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s interview with Kommersant daily, Moscow, April 15, 2020

Question: I would like to start with a controversial story about evacuating Russian citizens who are stranded abroad amid the coronavirus pandemic. Many people are critical, on the one hand, of the way the evacuation was organised and, on the other hand, the fact that "the virus carriers who are themselves responsible for being stranded abroad," are brought back home. What can you say about the assumption that, since they are the ones to blame, they should figure out a way to get out of this difficulty themselves? Why is the evacuation process so hit or miss and erratic?

Sergey Lavrov: First of all, everyone is right in their own way. But these points of view are diametrically opposite. They do exist, though. They should be taken for granted, regardless of what one may personally feel about these situations. We must do our work which is to act upon the Emergency Response Centre’ decisions adopted interdepartmentally upon President Putin’s explicit instructions, that concern our involvement in evacuating Russian citizens from abroad and providing financial assistance to those who have lost their means of subsistence for living abroad.

The decisions regarding assistance in repatriation are reflected in a generalised form in an algorithm, which includes a series of hour-by-hour actions where the Foreign Ministry acts as a co-organiser in notifying our citizens, taking them to the airport and having them board a flight according to lists approved by the Ministry of Communications in conjunction with the air carriers.

We need to follow the main criterion here which is that we cannot do anything that would violate the effectiveness of the measures to achieve the main goal which is to ensure the greatest possible safety for the people and to minimise the risk to the life and health of our people. The Russian agencies that are responsible for health and sanitary security, organising quarantines, self-isolation and observation capacity play the key role here and bear the brunt of the responsibility, as they are fully aware of the capabilities available in a particular region. This is an objective criterion and there is no way around it. Everything else is being built around this, including the regional quotas, i.e., 500 people daily to Moscow and the Moscow Region, and 200 people each to the other regions. All this is based on the capabilities on the ground.

Given this fairly straightforward, but of course, strict framework, our embassies are at the forefront of the emotions experienced by our people. There have been many instances where the situation became critical and many people who hoped to be taken aboard were not because they failed to clearly and accurately fill out the interdepartmental form approved by the Emergency Response Centre, or tried to fly home in violation of the applicable algorithm.

We have managed to defuse the issue in the countries where it was most difficult to do so, such as Morocco, Montenegro, Egypt, the Philippines and Cyprus, to name a few. We did manage to bring home transit passengers from Qatar and South Korea. Some tourists have been left hanging, and their situation is further aggravated by them being stranded in remote corners of the world, such as small islands. In particular, people are unable to leave Fiji, the Seychelles, Guatemala and a number of African states. In conjunction with our colleagues from the Ministry of Transport, the Federal Air Transport Agency and the Ministry of Communications, we are working to get them out of these places with charter flights.

We have about 35,000 to 36,000 people (give or take 1,000 to 1,500) who want to leave, on the waiting list. As you may know, priority is given to those who came to the country of their current residence after January 1, 2020. Those who traveled abroad earlier are reviewed individually, based on humanitarian needs. There are some people who went abroad for medical purposes, who needed a special operation that required lengthy preparations and postoperative rehabilitation, not just because they chose to spend a few years in a foreign country. There are dozens of people in this category. We are working with them individually. There are students, teachers, highly-trained specialists, employees of foreign branches of Russian companies, participants in cultural and scientific exchanges and mixed families. They all want to come home.

On April 9, Prime Minister Mishustin chaired a videoconference. The participants approved the Foreign Ministry’s proposal that the lists put together by the Ministry of Communications shall be approved in Moscow by the Operational Headquarters, transferred to our diplomats in a particular country, and be strictly followed. However, in recent weeks, the ambassadors have often run into emergency cases involving pregnant women, family members who, for whatever reason, were not included on the list, or children. The prime minister gave the ambassadors the authority to supplement the lists with passengers who really need to come home.

The situation in the host country can cause major problems. For example, the United Arab Emirates closed its borders, so we had to work on a case-by-case basis. In India, just a week ago, we were told that the Indian authorities need four days to approve a flight. However, there are problems that were difficult to foresee. Several days ago in Goa, one of our citizens who is staying there and, apparently, not too troubled by the circumstances, was celebrating his birthday. About 60 people spent all night on the beach burning fireworks until 6 am. The local police arrived and the guests dispersed and some are now being accused of organising a riot. This complicates things for our diplomats.

I want to express my gratitude through your paper (we will also do so directly) to our ambassadors and diplomats, the overwhelming majority of whom use their time off and their own money, and provide accommodation to people who find themselves without economic wherewithal at the embassies. In Nepal, this was not an option, but embassy workers set up a tent camp on the cultural centre grounds upon the ambassador’s instructions for 20 to 30 of our people. This is one of many facts of personal involvement in the lives of Russian compatriots. Just yesterday, I read messages from our fellow citizens who had the warmest words to say about our embassy in Peru and our employees helping them out. Our compatriots permanently residing in host countries, New York and other US cities, as well as in other countries, are letting people into their homes to tide them over.

Question: There is a lot of praise for the Philippines.

Sergey Lavrov: In the Philippines, we were greatly assisted with the evacuation by Russia’s Honorary Consul in the Province of Cebu, a Philippines national, and our compatriots. However, there are still many problems. I mentioned the fact that we started to hand over payments. As of today, about 8,000 of our compatriots are receiving financial assistance. Around 27,000 compatriots are registered and eligible for these daily payments. The financial assistance amounts for adults and children were approved by a government resolution.

Much is being done. Of course, errors do occur. It is obvious to me that they could not have been avoided. The scale of problems is unprecedented. At least for the staff that is currently dealing with them. I cannot remember things like this ever happening. We are trying to help and advise each other in the inter-agency format. We are working closely with our colleagues from other bodies and sharing good advice. I think the urgency of the problem will recede. Although, after we evacuate large groups of our citizens from key countries such as India, Indonesia, Thailand and Turkey, we will have to deal with very small groups. There are cities with virtually several people – eight, ten, or a couple dozen. This will require steps to gather them in places where an evacuating flight can be sent. I am speaking in so much detail because there are very many oversimplified assessments, however, the circumstances are much more complicated. That requires an understanding of the hardships our diplomats are facing.

Question: Social networks and official broadcasts are full of questions as to why Russian citizens should be brought back, why such efforts should be taken, why they should be paid as it would be better to spend that money in the Russian regions. Do you personally think that they should be evacuated?

Sergey Lavrov: I am not speaking with you as a private person. I may have a lot of different ideas personally. But I must follow the Constitution and the laws of the Russian Federation, which directly oblige us to do everything so that our citizens can freely leave their country and come back freely too.

Question: You have already commented on Western claims that Russia is helping other countries for PR purposes. At home, people are also asking why we are helping the Americans that imposed sanctions on Russia, EU countries and others.  Why help other countries if it is possible to just keep it for ourselves?

Sergey Lavrov: First, President of Russia Vladimir Putin has already spoken on this issue. He mentioned the role played by military medical workers and virologists in countering the pandemic in Italy and Serbia. Our military virologists are also working in Bosnia. He emphasised that this is just a small part of existing army capabilities and if need be, they will be used in Russia on a much larger scale.

Why help? In the end, we have certain traditions, including spiritual ones. This issue was discussed not only as regards Italy and the US. Probably we should have said more about our assistance to all CIS countries. We are supplying them with test kits, respirators and many other things. We are also helping Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Now we have received additional requests from some of these countries and we are reviewing them. Not a single request from any CIS country, Abkhazia or South Ossetia will go unheeded.

I can assure you that the decisions to help with sending funds and equipment are based on the needs in Russia. Of course, we are taking into account the fact that we have launched accelerated production of all the required ventilators and other equipment. We are in touch with the Ministry of Industry and Trade and they are on this day and night. I don’t think we should be guided by the logic “I don’t have enough myself” in this case. That’s the temptation. But if you follow this logic, it is okay to intercept humanitarian cargoes in transit over Russia, as some other countries have done. I don’t think it does anything to burnish one’s reputation.

Speaking about other countries, we found out something very unpleasant in our efforts to help bring Russian citizens home.

It came to our attention that 74 Russian school students had arrived in the US who knows how. Strictly speaking, we do know now, but they arrived in the US without the knowledge of the Russian authorities or anyone else but their families. This became known literally the other day. High school students arrived in the US under a program that is supervised by the Department of State since it created this programme. The Department of State and the families that provided them with accommodation for the internship period told us: “The programme is cancelled due to the coronavirus, take your children home.” The Embassy is trying to find out the details of all this. Some organisers of this programme have reported that a number of families asked these children to get out, to leave their houses. I would like to emphasise that the Foreign Ministry was informed of this several days ago. Nobody had told us before about this programme or that Russian school children are in a predicament.

FLEX, a similar programme of school exchanges, existed a while back. We stopped it because when yet another group was preparing to come home, one of our underage students was persuaded to stay with an adoptive same sex family despite all US commitments to return the children to their families. And now a new case has come out. Considering this critical situation, we are dealing with this and doing everything we can to find these children. We do not know where they are. The Department of State cannot provide us with all the information we are seeking, either. This happens in the US. Like in the case of adopted children: after the adoption it is very difficult to find where the children are or where their adoptive families have moved.

We have already sent information on the recent case to our Ministry of Education, asking them to talk to all schools to find out who might have landed in a similar predicament. We strongly advise all parents to refrain from giving their permission for the children to attend any US academic programmes that are not protected by international legal agreements. Regrettably, we don’t have such programmes with the Americans. This is why various incidents occur and embassies have to deal with them.

Question: We have seen a number of comments regarding conspiratorial explanations of the present pandemic. There were also official statements in which Chinese officials made accusations at the US, which made counter-accusations. Which account should we accept? Is it a natural or man-made pandemic?

Sergey Lavrov: I read the same things that you do. I heard the British and Americans statements that “China must pay trillions for failing to duly notify everyone.” At the same time, the battle to the death between Democrats and Republicans in the US has not let up. President Trump is accused of knowing about the potential threat but not taking it seriously enough.  Arguments to the contrary are made in statements going in the opposite direction. 

Recently I saw, as I was reading about these sorts of theories, that the Daily Mail published a report two or three days ago that a laboratory located in Wuhan was conducting experiments with bats which received $3.7 billion in funding from the Pentagon. This is the Daily Mail, after all. I’m just passing on what I have read. It is more than a little curious. It is important to understand what was happening behind the scenes.

There are also theories about bats and other animals, and about military sporting events in Wuhan visited by a US delegation that stayed at a hotel very near to that marketplace, and so on. It should be investigated but without emotion, with a cool head, by gathering the facts to better understand the origins of the crisis and learn lessons for the future so as to be better prepared for possible new pandemics rather than sifting this torrent of information for something you can use to stain your rival. 

Question: Of course we have to ask about any precautionary measures you have been taking personally. You said that a half of the Foreign Ministry personnel are working remotely. What is your workday like now? Maybe you have some advice on how to protect oneself from the coronavirus? The President of Belarus recommends a sauna, a tractor and vodka, and to ignore it altogether. What would you advise?  

Sergey Lavrov: I would not ignore all of the advice from President of the Republic of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko. I have a large office at the Ministry. When someone comes to see me, we sit at a distance of about two metres apart. I wash my hands more often than usual. I also use disinfectant products. 

Question: Do you wear a mask?  

Sergey Lavrov: I don’t. But most of the people who come to my office wear a mask. We now hold our regular meetings daily rather than weekly, and they were relocated from my office to the Collegium Hall where we can sit in every other chair to keep more distance between us. We have additional monitoring checkpoints on the Minister’s floor where that hall is situated, with disinfectant products, thermometers and so on. Nothing unusual, very simple and obvious things.

Question: So there are no special measures to protect officials of your rank?

Sergey Lavrov: We are regularly tested, of course. My staff were also tested. I am probably tested more often than others, I don’t know.